How I got Gruntz working on Windows 10 64-bit (dgVoodoo 2)

[myeverythinghurts]

Hi guys,

First I just thought I'd say how amazed I am that this community still exists and is active... which is perhaps more than can be said for another old favourite of mine, NetStorm 

I remember a very long time ago being assisted by someone on a forum circa 1999 (which may well have been this one, or perhaps an official Monolith Gruntz message board) with getting hold of a patched file of some kind, perhaps a save file.

Anyhow... I thought it might be helpful to somebody one day if I were to share my experience of getting Gruntz working on the latest and greatest version of Windows.

1. I installed the game by manually copying the files from the CD, as described in another thread on this forum, which is presumably necessary because the installer was written as a 16-bit application for some reason (which there is absolutely no workaround for in 64-bit Windows, other than somebody writing a new installer)

2. I downloaded the v1.01 patched version from this site and installed that in the normal way

3. I downloaded the ZIPped Gruntz Editor from this site and copied that into my Gruntz folder (remembering to launch it and click on "Calculate Cow IDs")

4. I launched the game to generate the registry keys that should have been created by the game's installer

5. I ran a search on my system registry using RegEdit to find every occurrence of the "Monolith Productions/Gruntz/1.0" registry folder, setting the "Resolution" value to "3" each time I found it (to get the maximum possible game resolution of 1024x768)

6. This is where I diverged from the advice I've seen given elsewhere on this forum. I figured that the reason why Gruntz runs like poop on 64-bit operating systems is down to the poor support for older graphics APIs (i.e. DirectDraw) in these OSes. So, I did a Google search for "DirectDraw wrappers" (which is an umbrella term for the type of utility that DxWnd and D3DWindower are - I notice that you guys have used these to get the game running well in windowed mode, but not in full-screen). It led me to forum threads like this one: www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31583&start=80, where there is a long list of wrappers that people have created for many different games. I have tried a few of them with Gruntz, and the one that I have had the most success with is dgVoodoo 2, which is available at dege.freeweb.hu/ and is currently being actively developed. With that utility, I was able to run the game in full-screen at buttery smooth speed - no lag at all. The only glitch is that when Gruntz tries to display a grey "Windows-style" dialog box (such as the Optionz and Battlez dialogs), the game will minimize itself in order to display these, which is a little annoying. Still, it proves the point that with the right wrapper, this game could still be run perfectly well on modern computers for many years to come. All that is required is for someone with more time on their hands than me to keep on trying different wrappers until they find one that makes Gruntz run perfectly without any glitchez at all 

So, I hope that my story proves useful to the community and that this forum will still be alive when I next remember this game in another 10 years' time!

P.S. The GOG community wishlist entry for Gruntz needs a lot more love: www.gog.com/wishlist/games/gruntz. Pretty sure GOG have released other Monolith titles, so why not this one? Especially now that we've worked out how to get it working for them!
P.P.S. The game is working so well, that when I added it as a non-Steam game in Steam and run it through there, I am able to access the shift-tab overlay during the game

[SwordGrunt]

Interesting that it ran fine on fullscreen with these modifications. Definitely a lot better than having it windowed. Also impressive that you managed to get the Steam overlay working on it, mine never showed up! Great to see all your effort in finding the right way to run this, I'm sure it'll help a lot of other people trying to get it to run well on newer computers.

[apelli]

Yay, great thanks for this guide!
Agree with the GOG love statement, release there would be awesome!

[GooRoo]

I have almost completed the reorganization of my computer desk, giving me room to work on important things once again. After I complete the COMPUTER reorganization, correcting the lost links in the indices, I will be making use of the information in this thread to get Gruntz working (at an acceptable frame rate) on this Windows 10 computer. When that happens, I will return to the attempt to create new Gruntz Questz. Since the prognosis is for four more days of rain in my area, I have that long to do things indoors before it is time to work OUTdoors.

With full Spring now here, the greenery will take up a big chunk of my time, and the need to remove some avoirdupois from this 73+ year old body via the bicycle will also impact my Gruntzing. (Not the maintenance of this Forum, but any thought of designing new puzzles.) For the next few months, good weather will take me away from Gruntz (pray for rain?), but I hope to be part of the infusion of new life into Gruntz.

[GooRoo]

Can someone please provide a 'cook book' for running Gruntz on a Windows 10 computer?

Such as:

1. Obtain programs X, Y and Z
2. Set parameters in program X to:
   
   1. A=#
   2. B=#
   3. C=#
3. Set parameters in program Y to:
   
   1. A=#
   2. B=#
   3. C=#
4. Set parameters in program Y to:
   
   1. A=#
   2. B=#
   3. C=#
5. Open program X and select Gruntz(?)
6. et cetera
7. et cetera
8. et cetera
9. You are now playing Gruntz at a reasonable frame rate! Enjoy!!!

Assume that the reader knows absolutely NOTHING about any of the components you used to get Gruntz running on hir Windows 10 computer.

I just tried running Gruntz with the programs installed per the various threads on the subject, and the frame rate was abysmal ... and the mouse pointer refused to go where I wanted it to ... even to quit the game! I had to go into Task Manager (3 finger salute!) in order to close Gruntz. So I am still among those who cannot play Gruntz on hir personal computer (hir is a Star Trek combination of his & her ... unisex).

[SpaceGoo]

Mar 28, 2016 16:44:09 GMT -8 GooRoo said:

Can someone please provide a 'cook book' for running Gruntz on a Windows 10 computer?

Assume that the reader knows absolutely NOTHING about any of the components you used to get Gruntz running on hir Windows 10 computer.

I just tried running Gruntz with the programs installed per the various threads on the subject, and the frame rate was abysmal ... and the mouse pointer refused to go where I wanted it to ... even to quit the game! I had to go into Task Manager (3 finger salute!) in order to close Gruntz. So I am still among those who cannot play Gruntz on hir personal computer (hir is a Star Trek combination of his & her ... unisex).

Okay, so I was pretty much in the same boat as you. Just recently got a Windows 10 laptop and decided to boot up Gruntz again, for the first time in a while. Figured I'd come back to my home grounds and was lucky enough to find this topic. I did what myeverythinghurts said and that's the only way I've been able to get the game going.

To reiterate what he said a bit more clearly, you want to go to dege.freeweb.hu/ and download the dgVoodoo2 (latest version, v2.51). Then unzip zipped file. After that, you want to find that newly unzipped folder and open it up. Inside there should be 2 other folders inside of that one (named MS and 3Dfx), a file called dgVoodooSetup, and a couple of readme files.

What you want to do is move the dgVooDooSetup file into the main Gruntz folder. Then you need to go into the folder named MS and copy all of the files inside of it into the Gruntz folder, and then do the same thing for the folder called 3Dfx. After that, all I did was run the dgVooDooSetup file one time and then close it, and then run Gruntz. It should work just fine now.

As he said, anytime you do anything that opens a Windows-style box, like click Custom Levelz, or Load Game (or even save a game), it's going to minimize your Gruntz screen into windowed mode. This is really, really annoying and I wish there was a fix for it, but it doesn't look like there is. Anyway, to go from the windowed mode back to fullscreen (or vice versa), just hit ALT+ENTER when you are in the game and it will revert back. Sometimes I've gotten weird effects, like the game being only in one color of the RGB band, for whatever reason. Just hit ALT+ENTER a couple more times and it will eventually be right. It really sucks to have to go through all this hassle to just play the game. I'll probably just use my old laptop with Windows 7 from now on.

Also, as a side note, if you have to open the Gruntz Edit help file on Windows 10, you're probably not going to get that to work, either. I've already found a workaround if anyone needs to know it.

[GooRoo]

A few problems with the suggested set-up to run Gruntz under Windows 10:

1. Using the mouse to scroll right is limited ... must use the arrow keyboard button to display a wide map.
2. Cannot move the mouse to select anything from the status area (as to display the solver's Gruntz).
3. Mouse action is very 'jerky' ... not smooth action at all.

Does anyone have a fix for (any of) these problems?

[hugheth2]

Thanks for the advice guys! I'm going to try this and I'll let you know if I run into any problems / the steps that I take to get it to work

[GooRoo]

I followed the advice within this thread, and with some experimenting of my own, and now convinced that the 'Medium' 'Easy' and "Very Easy" difficulty Questz are playable on 64-bit Windows 10 computers.

Puzzlez with difficult timing mini-puzzlez will likely prove to closer to 'Frustrating' due to the quirks of mouse operations. And it may prove necessary to add in at least one CheckPoint Switch witha CheckPoint Pyramid and CheckPoint Flag associated with it, in order to force an exit to windows mode ... which seems to fix almost all of the problems that show up when you first play a Quest:

1. unscrollable maps ... mouse movements do not scroll, keyboard arrows required.
2. Control Panel inaccessible ... mouse simply refuses to move there, and keyboard shortcuts do not work.
3. Strange (almost grey scale) colors.
4. Grunt assignment via CTRL-# does not work.
5. Mouse movement not smooth
6. slightly pixelated display

All of the above problems (and probably several more) disappear if an exit to windows mode is made (as when a CheckPoint is reached).

Obtain the free programs mentioned in this thread, follow the readme instructions, start Gruntz and begin experimenting ... you WILL manage to get it to work. If this 73 year old klutz can do it, you can too!

[hugheth2]

I realised that I have a 32-bit machine, which means it should be easier, right?! Still trying

[GooRoo]

Well, I am discovering more nad more problems with Gruntz on a 64-bit Windows 10 computer.

My best effort on Mikker's "6 Partz And Into The Fort" failed on the part where the solver's Grunt races against the enemy Sword Grunt ... when the screen display/mouse movement ended on the second Crumbling Bridge Tile before the stable Bridge Tilez leading to the Coin, and the Bottle of Zap Cola. Since I could not move my Grunt to the stable BT, I could not complete the puzzle. So, apparently, there is a limitation on how wide a map may be, and still be able to move a Grunt to the far right. (Yes, I did do a SAVE both before beginning the foot race, and when the Grunt landed after going through the Blue Wormhole ... made no difference.)

I am attempting to replay older Quests in order to determine the restraints I must make in creating any new ones that will still be playable on Windows 10, with the tools that have been discovered that show some promise. So far, anything that requires precision in mouse movement, such as "3D Lava II" (about 100 Toggling Bridge Tiles to click on individually!) and such as the long horizontal movement of 6PAITF is to be avoided. I know that a Quest such as Paul's "A World Of Sweetz", with both its large size and its Silver Pyramid puzzle that requires VERTICAL scrolling is quite unlikely to ever be played under Windows 10. That's really too bad, since it is one of those Quests that have never had a "PERFECT!" Statz Page image.

[GooRoo]

More anomalies with Windows 10 Gruntz play: In "Air Wavez", the screen went to monochrome (blue) for me, and an exit for a SAVE did not restore true colors. Well, true colors returned between selecting the SAVE slot and responding to "Your game has been SAVEd", but was once again blue monochrome. With Gun Hat enemies (that are difficult to see in monochrome) I lost a Grunt. Dinner calls now, so I likely will not return to testing Windows 10 anomalies until tomorrow, with the other things on my schedule.

[Percentage]

Many thanks for this ! I will save up all the notes for future use. It is true that the minimize situation is annoying, I hope that this gets a correction in future. At least this is much less worse than the lag. I should test this out with Captain Claw too.

EDIT: This also works with Claw! I can rest in peace now! These two Monolith games were the most affected ones with the new OS but I am happy there is a solution to make both playable!

[fretz]

I got Gruntz working smoothly on Win10 following these instructions. It plays in a window, but it plays. The mouse action is smooth, the colors are correct, I can scroll up, left and right but not down (have to use keyboard). It doesn't minimize when opening a Windows dialog box. The only problem I'm having is the game freezes after playing for a while. It's completely random. Sometimes I can play a half hour, other times only a few minutes before it freezes. The only way to close it is with Task Manager. It seems like everyone is having their own unique set of problems playing Gruntz on 64 bit Win10 depending, apparently, on the hardware configuration. This workaround works for some but apparently not everyone. I'm probably just going to play Gruntz on my old Win7 laptop unless there's a huge breakthrough to running it on Win10 64 bit.

[GooRoo]

I have pretty much resigned myself to clearing the area around my wife's old desktop computer in her sewing room, doing the "sneaker net" thing to move things back and forth between my laptop (for web host maintenance) and the old desktop (for playing the game). It seems that Microsoft and the computer manufacturers have it in for those of us who love the old, non-violent computer games, changing things so that older programs no longer work on new hardware/software.

[thestrawgrunt]

I did all this and the game works but...it keeps crashing all the time. Is there anything else that I should do but that was not mentioned in this thread? How should the voodoo wrapper thingy be configured? Thanks

[GooRoo]

Oct 9, 2016 4:55:58 GMT -8 thestrawgrunt said:

I did all this and the game works but...it keeps crashing all the time. Is there anything else that I should do but that was not mentioned in this thread? How should the voodoo wrapper thingy be configured? Thanks

I used the defaults, and have not experienced any crashes ... just a restriction on moving my Grunt to the right (East) or down (South). It helped me to do a SAVE, which caused the game to exit to a window. When I returned, most of the problems (such as monochrome color display) went away.

[GooRoo]

Apr 13, 2016 18:08:19 GMT -8 GooRoo said:

A few problems with the suggested set-up to run Gruntz under Windows 10:

1. Using the mouse to scroll right is limited ... must use the arrow keyboard button to display a wide map.
2. Cannot move the mouse to select anything from the status area (as to display the solver's Gruntz).
3. Mouse action is very 'jerky' ... not smooth action at all.

Does anyone have a fix for (any of) these problems?

Most of these problems are solved simply by doing a SAVE, with dgVoodoo and Windows Compatability mode (Vista). When the game comes back, the limits on scrolling, mouse movement (to the status columns). etc. are no longer a problem.

The remaining problem (just an annoyance, really) is that the game locks up. Since it is a screen program (not a windowed program), the three finger salute (Ctrl+Alt+Del) invokes Task Manage as a low-res window, and the mouse is not recognized. Except in extreme cases (where Gruntz leaves an open window in front of Task Manager) the arrow keys is used to select Gruntz, and the delete (not Del) key will kick Gruntz out of the system, restoring your control of the computer.

Also, when you shut down Gruntz for any reason, then bring it back up to go back to a SAVEd game, the display reverts to a limited screen size, and you cannot use the mouse to select anything from the game menu. So far, I have not found a work-around for this, and had to restart the puzzle in order to play on past the stalled SAVE slot point.

Even with these annoyances, it is nice to be able to play Gruntz once again!

[GooRoo]

What works (mostly) for me on my 64-bit Windows 10 laptop:

• Vista compatibility mode!
• dgVoodoo
• One of these screen resolution patches:
  
  1. oldest
  2. latest for 32-bit processors
  3. latest for 64-bit processors
  
  
• F2 (SAVE) as a work-around to game starting in 20X15 tile (640X480 pixels) mode
• Task Manager when Gruntz goes belly-up (it often does) with keyboard arrow + the delete key

When you select "Custom Level", Gruntz frequently dies (for me, with over 625 entries); restarting Gruntz and making the same selection, something 'remembers' what was done the first time, and Gruntz goes into the background and a small dialog window opens up with the menu for the contents of your custom folder, allowing you to select your game. Then the Gruntz screen reopens with your selection.

When I have SAVEd a puzzle in progress, and had to leave the computer, turning it off, when returning the F3 (or F8) RESTORE function reestablishes the 20X15 scrolling limitation. And the SAVE method above does not work! The only recourse I have found is to restart the puzzle from the beginning, and play through without similar interruptions.

I hope this helps someone to get Gruntz going (again) on their Windows 10 computer.

[swietymiki]

You have 625 entries placed in your "Custom" folder? All Custom Questz?

If so, I really suggest to put most of them (ones that you don't have to use at the moment) to a different location. It is very understandable that an old game will crash when trying to even partly load 625 files at once!