BattlezM
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Post by BattlezM on Aug 16, 2006 9:56:16 GMT -8
While I was finishing one of my levelz, I got an idea. Why should an exit trigger alwayz be a fort? I discovered that any logic can be turned into a fort . You can try it, just make a fort exittrigger, but put some sort of eyecandy instead of a fort. Then put 2 gruntz, one with a warpstone and one without. You will find that the fort actz like a normal fort and it even has the king pacing around. I'm not sure how it may be used, but it could be useful for a fancy level. eg. do this with one of those huge eyecandiez in the miniature master level set( the kitchen hole may work well). Someone should put this into the GLE board. P.S. Goo Roo, do you think that designerz should be able to make their own postz in the GLE board in case they have a new idea (or found one?).
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BattlezM
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Post by BattlezM on Aug 16, 2006 21:33:10 GMT -8
I have done more experimenting, this time with flagz boxez. Here'z what I found . Checking the mirror box will make a mirror image of the logic, no matter what it is! Also the object will spin in the opposite direction (this will be handy if you want to make a level where the fort lookz different! or if you are tired of looking at all those coinz turn in one direction .). Checking the invert box will flip the object upside down. Checking the flash box will make the object flash quickly (maybe handy for enhancing the appearance of powerupz).
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Post by FriedGruntzaholic on Aug 17, 2006 6:52:39 GMT -8
While I was finishing one of my levelz, I got an idea. Why should an exit trigger alwayz be a fort? I discovered that any logic can be turned into a fort . You can try it, just make a fort exittrigger, but put some sort of eyecandy instead of a fort. Then put 2 gruntz, one with a warpstone and one without. You will find that the fort actz like a normal fort and it even has the king pacing around. I'm not sure how it may be used, but it could be useful for a fancy level. eg. do this with one of those huge eyecandiez in the miniature master level set( the kitchen hole may work well). Someone should put this into the GLE board. P.S. Goo Roo, do you think that designerz should be able to make their own postz in the GLE board in case they have a new idea (or found one?). You have a point here. Which set me to thinking. Arguably one of the most successful PC games ever created has been "The Sims", a game that my late wife enjoyed. And one aspect of the game that I think has been crucial to its ongoing success has been the ability of users to modify existing objects to create new objects for the Sims to use. My wife was one such user. She learned how to modify an object's properties and/or, armed with her graphics program, modify its appearance, to make something new. Whole groups dedicated to nothing but modifying/creating objects have sprung up and flourished. We Gruntzerz have had a similar ability to create new levels using the GLE, and we have in the past discussed ideas for new level sets. But can we figure out how to do the same with the objectz? For example, take a tool or toy and modify it's appearance and/or action to make a whole new object? Is that possible?
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BattlezM
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Post by BattlezM on Aug 17, 2006 8:39:42 GMT -8
If monlith would let us have the gruntz code , someone will figure out how to make new toolz, toyz, AI, etc. There may even be an expansion pack for gruntz . If you have ever visited some "Age of Empires" (a civilization building game) you may have heard of mods. They can alter an objects appearence, but replace it. Without the gruntz code however, we can only try little trickz (like messing with flagz boxez) to alter gruntz. With out some serious programming (for image, grunt image, tool behavior, attack, enemy AI use, etc.) there is no way to create new toolz or anything . If by some lucky chance we did get the gruntz code (maybe someone can hack into it) it'z possible to do anything, including new graphicz setz ! Well, right now I'm going to see what can be gained from altering other boxez.
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BattlezM
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Post by BattlezM on Aug 17, 2006 9:29:32 GMT -8
Doing more experimentz I made a big, but small level with flag and inamge altering. This level featurez: a changed fort, different angled eyecandy, different object dropperz, new fort flag, altered toolz, and different rolling rockz.
Note: If you do choose to begin a level with these alteringz, keep in mind that some stuff lookz weird The shadow angle changez when you make a miirror image, which makez the level appear to have two different perspectivez. I am putting this level in beta-levelz board.
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BattlezM
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Post by BattlezM on Aug 17, 2006 9:43:21 GMT -8
I am also going to post another flagz experiment level from Gruntz in Space.
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Post by oldone on Aug 17, 2006 10:21:05 GMT -8
Hmmm, this sounds very intriging!
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Gaby
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Post by Gaby on Aug 17, 2006 10:33:45 GMT -8
thank you BattlezM... that is the "flip" we were looking for ...
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Post by alexandgruntz on Aug 17, 2006 11:34:24 GMT -8
Checking the No Draw box won't draw it - however the object is still there! Rolling Ball set to No Draw would be a huge challenge! #ROTFL_ani# # #
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Gaby
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Post by Gaby on Aug 17, 2006 11:39:46 GMT -8
you mean the rolling ball will be invisible? It's not a fair thing to do in a game... is it? to put invisible objectz that can harm gruntz is to put a stone in a blind persons way... do you want the solver to play or to fail?... to tackle on purpose?...it's not a game
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BattlezM
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Post by BattlezM on Aug 17, 2006 14:38:05 GMT -8
AlexandGruntz is right. You can make invisible rolling rockz . But don't use this too much, a tightly timed RB puzzle is tough enough without the RB being invisible ! My suggestion on how to use this is to put a RB (invisible) in a level to try and get the solver to make a mistake, like walking off tar edgez and bridgez accidently. You should put it somewhere on a path, but not in the middle of a puzzle. Remember I have posted 2 levelz with alteringz in the beta levelz board (they aren't real levelz, just examplez). Try them and give me more feedback. By the way I don't think this invisible thing will alwayz work with certain thingz (like toolz). Another note on RBz . You can change the appearence of a rolling rock just like fortz ! You can see an example of this in Flagz World 8, Where I used a bomb icon instead of the RB_south (it was a spinning bomb moving south!! ). Unfortanatly, the image of the regular RB will come back when the RB bouncez off an arrow .
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Post by ILoveGruntz on Aug 18, 2006 6:11:15 GMT -8
Checking the No Draw box won't draw it - however the object is still there! Rolling Ball set to No Draw would be a huge challenge! #ROTFL_ani# # # Combined with the x/y=0 bug, this could create "automatic switchez" #ROTFL_ani# I have also discovered that you may place as many static hazardz as you want - on the same square (I use this in my new CL), completely messing up the timing of a puzzle.
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Post by oldone on Aug 18, 2006 7:36:56 GMT -8
Oh please don't do this! It's not only very hard on the eyes, but it really slows my computer down, and hence the gruntz don't move properly.
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BattlezM
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Post by BattlezM on Aug 18, 2006 9:21:45 GMT -8
Checking the No Draw box won't draw it - however the object is still there! Rolling Ball set to No Draw would be a huge challenge! #ROTFL_ani# # # Combined with the x/y=0 bug, this could create "automatic switchez" #ROTFL_ani# I have also discovered that you may place as many static hazardz as you want - on the same square (I use this in my new CL), completely messing up the timing of a puzzle. The only use for placing static hazardz on the same tile is when you want a RB to get somewhere, but not alow a grunt to go there (like cutting cornerz in a RB puzzle.
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Post by alexandgruntz on Aug 18, 2006 12:23:55 GMT -8
Oh please don't do this! It's not only very hard on the eyes, but it really slows my computer down, and hence the gruntz don't move properly. Get a new computer, today's ones are much faster.
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GooRoo
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Post by GooRoo on Aug 18, 2006 17:12:09 GMT -8
I am using my wife's computer today to access the Forum. So my problem has not been resolved, but I am able to at least scan the new posts, and answer a few postz. I have been testing BattlezM's CLz with the thingz he has mentioned in this thread. The "Flags:" attributez I feel are very worthy of inclusion in the Gruntz Level Editor manual, and will add that as soon as I am able to access the Forum on my own computer again. The use of combinations such as those mentioned in this thread I believe to be counter to the integrity of the game of Gruntz. An ExitTrigger should look like a Fort ... nothing else. Multiple Static Hazardz are simply nasty ... and any more than two on a Tile will cause me to toss such a level into the trashcan, never to see my screen again. The use of two FlyingGolfBallz on a single Tile is almost too much ... the distraction of the hazard action alone (particularly in a field of them, with different active timez) is plenty of difficulty. The idea of Gruntz is to provide puzzlez ... not one finger dexterity test after another. Sitting at the computer waiting for the perfect sequence to come around (in a cycle lasting minutez!) is not my idea of fun. Doing so dozenz of timez in a single CL is another reason to trash the CL, IMNSHO. Gruntzerz range from teenagerz (on-line, at least) to old dufferz like myself. As we get older, our reflexez get slower ... and our patience reducez almost to non-existence. Your goal as a Designer is to have your creationz played ... and enjoyed! If you make them so frustrating through the use of tight timing, et cetera ... your puzzlez will not be played!!! Several Gruntzerz have posted even in CL threadz rated "Medium" that such and such a sub-puzzle is "too hard ... I'll wait for a walkthrough". How much more so for those CLz rated "Hard" or "Very Hard"? In other wordz "rein in your urge to create the hardest possible puzzle ... make your target , instead, to be to create the puzzle that getz played by the widest range of Gruntzerz, and getz the most commentz about the puzzle aspectz of your CLz".
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Post by oldone on Aug 18, 2006 17:33:06 GMT -8
Get a new computer, today's ones are much faster. My computer is only 2 years old and it's pretty darn fast, and money doesn't grow on trees you know!
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Post by ILoveGruntz on Aug 19, 2006 2:40:21 GMT -8
Multiple Static Hazardz are simply nasty ... and any more than two on a Tile will cause me to toss such a level into the trashcan, never to see my screen again. The use of two FlyingGolfBallz on a single Tile is almost too much ... the distraction of the hazard action alone (particularly in a field of them, with different active timez) is plenty of difficulty. Don't worry. The "extra" hazard have a slow timing (and the cycle is about 15 sec), and is placed in the beginning of the puzzle (I am not that mean). When I experimented, I knew that placing two or three on every single tile, would be very nasty indeed, but a single extra in the beginning, shouldn't be that bad...
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BattlezM
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Post by BattlezM on Aug 19, 2006 16:48:12 GMT -8
Note to Goo Roo: fortz still look like fortz, they can easily be recognized by the king pacing around.
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BattlezM
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Post by BattlezM on Aug 20, 2006 16:30:10 GMT -8
Warning!! Do NOT overuse mirror, invert, and flash flagz in concentrated amountz in your levelz . Using to many flagz will quickly make the screen drag around slowly and horribly, making some puzzlez much harder to be dealt with (huge arrow mazez for instance).
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