Tool'z Powerz

[Mandew]

In a earlier thread (51, 52, 53: Zap Cola [in GLE manual]), Gamer talked about a theory so that the Grunt'z healt barz divided in 20 partz... That theory seems to be really true, as a bare-handed grunt have to hit 20 times before a ennemy Grunt is killed...
Anyways, following that truthful theory, I decided to sort out a list of tool and power (/20) of those:

SHORTRANGE TOOLZ:
Bare-hand grunt: 1 / 20
Boxing Golvez: 1 / 20
Shieldz: 1 / 20
Toobz: 2 / 20
Goober Straw: 2 / 20
Brick Laying Toolz: 4 / 20
Gauntletz: 5 / 20
Shovelz: 6 / 20
Clubz: (7 or 8 or 9) / 20
Sword: 10 / 20
Bombz: Explosion

LONGRANGE TOOLZ
Sponge Gun: 1 / 20
Wingz: 2 / 20 (+ Mutiple hitz possible)
Boomrangz: 6 / 20 (+ Multiple hitz possible)
Rockz: (7 or 8 or 9) / 20
Gun Hatz: 10 / 20
Weilder'z Kit: 20 / 20 (+ Burning effect)
TimeBombz: Explosion

It is not complete yet... I'll have to check some toolz in detailz (Spy gear, Brick laying toolz, etc.)

[BattlezM]

Spyz and brickz are equivilent . I think that clubz and rockz are 7. Gooberstrawz are 2.

[GooRoo]

battlezm said:

Spyz and brickz are equivilent .

I disagree ... a Spy Gear Grunt defeatz a Gauntletz Grunt ... which defeatz a BrickLayer Grunt. So in order to 'rank' Toolz, the time required to regenerate before reusing a Tool has to be taken into account.

I think that clubz and rockz are 7. Gooberstrawz are 2.

To determine the 'hit' strength of Toolz such as Club or Rock (etc.), use that Tool against an enemy Grunt twice, then turn the task over to a Bare-handed Grunt and count how many blowz are required to turn the Grunt into a Goo Puddle. (I would estimate that 6 Barehanded blowz would be required, making a 'hit' from a Club or Rock worth 7/20^ths of a life. If only 4 are required, a 'hit' would then be 8/20^ths of a life.)

[Mandew]

I'll try to build a Tryout CL to determine that...

Also note that every longrange toolz have thier equivalent in power of one shortranfge tool:

Boomrangz are as powerful as Shovel;
Sponge Gunz are as powerful (and have the same effect) as Boxing Gloves
Wingz are as powerful as Toobz (and have an "area-access" power likeness as well)
Rockz are as powerful as Clubz
Gunhatz are as powerful as Swordz
TimeBombz are as powerful as Bombz
I'd CONSIDER weilder'z kit as Powerful as Death Touch (only condering because death touch is a powerup and not a tool)

Oh, and you should know that some toolz whit 2 usez (not only the attacking one) can have different Recovery Time for those two usez: for exemple, a Brick Laying Grunt takez MUCH more time to recover from building a brick than attacking (so the trick to beat the Brick Layerz is to wait for them to build a brick Just before attacking them.)

[BattlezM]

admin said:

battlezm said:

Spyz and brickz are equivilent .

I disagree ... a Spy Gear Grunt defeatz a Gauntletz Grunt ... which defeatz a BrickLayer Grunt. So in order to 'rank' Toolz, the time required to regenerate before reusing a Tool has to be taken into account.

Spyz and bricklayerz do have the same attack, but one does take longer to attack (I think) .





Mandew, the tool strength guessez in your last post are correct.

Also I would love to add this bit of information about toolz to the GLE, when I get access to edit it (how'z that going Goo Roo? ).

[Gaby]

you may also make a list of how many hitz it takes to turn an enemy into goo (10/20=2 hitz ... 1/20=20 hitz... that's obvious but, how many hitz is 7/20? ... ) and a recovery list , and how about a team-work list (shovelz+gauntletz VS swordz is my favorite)...
BTW I always thought shovelz and gauntletz are equal with power and also that boxing glovez is a bit stronger then BH

[GooRoo]

gaby said:

you may also make a list of how many hitz it takes to turn an enemy into goo (10/20=2 hitz ... 1/20=20 hitz... that's obvious but, how many hitz is 7/20? ... ) and a recovery list , and how about a team-work list (shovelz+gauntletz VS swordz is my favorite)...
BTW I always thought shovelz and gauntletz are equal with power and also that boxing glovez is a bit stronger then BH

Shovel is stronger than Gauntletz ... wins a battle every time between Gruntz of equal health to start. Boxing Glovez=Bare-handed ... but with the additional 'feature' of shoving the opponent away. That meanz that Glovez earnz a bit of recovery time while the opponent movez back into "fighting range".

The "tough call" would be a Bare-handed Grunt with nowhere to run versus a SpongeGun Grunt also rooted in one place. I believe that Bare-handed would win, simply due to lesser recovery time to punch again. That's why I said that recovery time must be taken into account in order to determine which Tool is stronger. If it takez three timez as long to recover, the Tool is weaker than one requiring more 'hits', but recovering quicker. 7/20^ths per hit divided by 3 (recovery) cyclez versus 3/20^ths per hit divided by 1 (recovery) cycle: 3:7, 6:7, 9:7, 12:14, 15:14, 18:14, 21:21 is a virtual tie (for example).

[Mandew]

There's a multitude of factor that can make a tool more powerfull then another. For exemple, the protection of the shieldz:

Shieldz take only 1/2 of dammage from most of shortrange toolz, and NO dammage from Bare-Hands, Boxing Glovez and other Shieldz... So:

Shieldz and Shieldz: None can take on another
Shieldz and Boxing Glovez: Shield can defeat Boxing Glovez whit a little difficult (if the Glovez is a Hit-And-Runner, for instance)
Shield and BH: Shield defeat easily the BH
Shieldz and Gooberz: If shieldz recover faster then gooberz, Shieldz win.

And more factorz like boxing glovez push-back ability, or liike the speed and multiple hitz ability of the Boomerangz!

BTW I always thought shovelz and gauntletz are equal with power [...]

Well, technically, shovelz are stronger then gauntletz... Technically! In fact, both of them takez 4 hitz to defeat another, but Gauntletz is faster for recovery! That meanz Gauntletz win (if both gruntz have a full healt bar).

[BattlezM]

When two gruntz of full health with similar strength toolz engage in a battle it does not matter who recoverz faster. For example, if a shovel and gauntletz were to fight, the grunt that getz the first strike alwayz winz. There is one exception , if gauntletz has walked over a couple of spikez (maybe 2-3) he can't win even if he does get the first hit (that doesn't apply to my idea because both gruntz are not of full health). A battle between a sword and gauntletz would not matter who getz the first strike (gauntletz will alwayz [unless the sword runz away] get 2 hitz [3 if he strikez first] and getz killed. This however does not apply to my idea, swordz and gaunletz are nowhere near the same attack . A shovel and gauntletz against swords would apply, they have more strength than a sword. Also note that my idea will never work between ranged gruntz and short-range gruntz, noone (except the stupid AIz ) is dumb enough to get hit by a gunhat in an open field .

[BattlezM]

admin said:

I disagree ... a Spy Gear Grunt defeatz a Gauntletz Grunt ... which defeatz a BrickLayer Grunt. So in order to 'rank' Toolz, the time required to regenerate before reusing a Tool has to be taken into account.

Spyz do not win against gauntletz ! Not even if spyz getz the first hit.

Anyway, I plan to make a huge table explaining every possible battle condition (if gruntz are in full health) between two gruntz and list who would win (I would also create a second list with the second grunt getting the first strike ).

[Mandew]

When two gruntz of full health with similar strength toolz engage in a battle it does not matter who recoverz faster. For example, if a shovel and gauntletz were to fight, the grunt that getz the first strike alwayz winz.

I disagree... A shovel grunt takes WAY longer then gauntletz to recover...

Anyway, I made a Tryout level for toolz, so you can compare for yourself. But whit the web host down, I don't know if I should post it... Just tell me if you all want it to be posted...

BTW, I tested other thingz on that level, but most failed... but now i discovered that a goo sucker grunt can be used as a timer!

[BattlezM]

Do post the level, but I don't know if anyone will be able to download it (post it in beta levelz, I've posted a couple of flagz experiment levelz).

For me in a shovel/gauntletz fight, the grunt that strikez first winz, it didn't matter how long shovelz takez to regain stamina as long as he can hit again before gauntletz strikez again.

[Mandew]

I discovered that the brick laying tool have a "hit" value of 4 I'll add this on the first post

I believe that the BrickLayer Grunt has an unusual 'hit' value ... sometimez he just swingz the pail at the opponent, and at otherz both swingz the pail and stabz with the trowel. So he may have two different 'hit' valuez.

[Mandew]

Spy gearz have an hit value of 4
Brick Laying Toolz Takez as fast as BH to recover, but the time it takez to make the move itself is a little longuer sometimez (because sometime he doez a ""Faint Attack"" that take longuer...)

[BattlezM]

You will also notice that when a springz grunt getz struck, he sometimez beginz to flail backwardz. Even if he has rejuvinated his stamina, he can't attack during this (which makez it possible for a boxing glove to kill a full health spring grunt! ).

[Mandew]

battlezm said:

You will also notice that when a springz grunt getz struck, he sometimez beginz to flail backwardz. Even if he has rejuvinated his stamina, he can't attack during this (which makez it possible for a boxing glove to kill a full health spring grunt! ).

That'z another factor that could influence the result of a 1 on 1, Full-healt-at-start battle (and maybe some battlez whit otherz conditionz [what is the emote to show "thinking" {its impossible to see whit the web host down...}?]... )

[Gaby]

and that's in case the friendly grunt has nowhere to run to...

[BattlezM]

in most casez the advantage of making the spring grunt flail is only efficent if you can run somewhere (it'z a perfect amount of time [even if it'z a second] to run away to safety [it'z also pretty easy to get away from a spring {they're so slow }]). Note that boxing glovez can also be momentary stunned, very handy if you are fighting multiple boxer enemiez .

[Mandew]

When a Boxing Glovez Grunt get hit, he may sometimez make a BackFlip before his next hit... It'z like the flail of the Spring Grunt.

[BattlezM]

That'z what I meant in my last post.