Karaoke Bar

[oldone]

yourin said:

Sorry ilovegruntz, but i have drop this in the trashcan. It makes me nervous when you try it x time with no luck and when you done it the next light and bridges wait
If you make it easyer i think more gamers will play it
The puzzle are good in the level

I say ditto. The timing was very tight, but not impossible, but I can make no sense of this at all. I have spent the last 4 hours playing it. I ended up in cheat mode and I still couldn't get the gist of it. Not only that, but the longer I had the level open, the mushier my mouse got. Too many things going on at once.

Maybe when you put out a detailed walkthrough I'll try it, but until then I have no desire to look at it again. Sorry

[ILoveGruntz]

I am having a little trouble finding out, how to make a #walkthrough#, but until I find out: where are you having trouble? I might be able to help right away.

[oldone]

Well for a start, once I have the first 4 gruntz on the initial cps, I know that the one on the east side has to go first. But which one is the second to go? If I take the northern grunt, he has to stand on a ghs for someone, but then we're stuck as the first grunt can't move. If the take the southern one, there doesn't seem to be anywhere to go again.

If you could just write a simple walkthrough telling the basics of who goes where and when then maybe it would be easier to get through.

[ILoveGruntz]

Heh heh, I never thought that this puzzle was too hard, but that is probably because I designed it.
BOTH the grunt to the north and the one to the south has to go. You may return to the start of the big arrow puzzle and take the other possible route. Then the one to the south can click on the Silver switch, and the eastern grunt may continue. Then you may decide which one to move next (doesn't matter which one, but I usually take the one to the east).

[ILoveGruntz]

I could use some help here. I can't figure out how to make a #walkthrough# (the descriptions are very confusing)
Have anyone at all completed this level, so that they could write it, because it would seem that most gruntzerz have difficulties completing it.

[WalkingBear]

I am blocked tooo.....just getting those first four gruntz onto a checkpoint switch....it's Maddening!!!!

Write a walkthrough, PLEASE!!!!!

[WalkingBear]

Well, I managed to get all four gruntz onto the checkpoint tilez....and, sent the top one up, the right one over.....and the bottom one south...but that's it...

The timing is extremely tight.....it's too frutstrating to try to go any further without seeing any reason to....so I am quitting....it's killing me...but there is a limit to my patience.

[oldone]

I'm with you, fishingbear. I quit for the very same reason. If only the timing was a little more reasonable, we wouldn't mind having to do it more than once or twice.

A walkthrough would certainly help. Maybe someone who has finished it would be willing to give a hand in this area.

[WalkingBear]

I think that designers, in general, should think about the level of experience of the players when designing tightly timed puzzlez....

A designer who likez that sort of thing might make a note of it so that less talented playerz would be forewarned...not that we would like that any less...I am always up for a challenge, but there are limits, physically, to my ability...

I don't mean to sound like an old grump....but I love Gruntz so much that I crave that PERFECT! score...it is very disappointing when I can't get it!

[GooRoo]

ilovegruntz said:

I could use some help here. I can't figure out how to make a #walkthrough# (the descriptions are very confusing)

I have only recently begun writing HTML walkthroughz ... many of the walkthroughz you find linked are are plain text filez. Microsoft^TM Word is not the best choice, because of all the formatting characterz it putz into the file ... difficult to translate into HTML. NotePad is an excellent choice for a plain text file, and can easily be used in "cut and paste" operations to create HTML filez.

As far as the descriptionz being confusing ... how so? For standardization, the file namez for most componentz are given to prospective walkthrough writerz, for example: Toolz.htm(l). Older operating systemz are limitted to three character file extensionz (.htm), while newer onez allow four characterz (.html) ... the reason I put the "l" in parentheses.

Have anyone at all completed this level, so that they could write it, because it would seem that most gruntzerz have difficulties completing it.

I do not have a screen grab of the Statz Page, so will make an attempt at it for about an hour before today's appointment. Then I will return to it in about 5 hours from now to continue my solving effort on the CL.

[GooRoo]

Well, after six attemptz to make it to the left-hand where the spotlight caught my Grunt stepping from the last to the destination ... I quit!

I am not interested in playing so-called 'puzzlez' containing so many millisecond timing eventz. That particular timing event has the solver failing if a tenth of a second too soon, or a tenth of a second too late (or less!). The opening of this CL is good, with the problem of getting four Gruntz across four different pathz to their z. Even the problem of getting the Grunt with the shortest path (Eastern Grunt) across the water past the long string of Rolling 8 Ballz and the single Rolling 8 Ball to safety (while annoying ... having to wait for an opening to come around) is not a 'breaker'. (That problem is repeated for the Northern Grunt ... and by extrapolation must also be repeated for the Southern and Western Gruntz.) I could release the Northern Grunt ... and I think I did that on the first attempt. But I must be getting too old (and slooooooow) to release the Southern Grunt. It took me at least twenty attemptz to even get my Eastern Grunt as close as one Tile away from success. And another twenty or thirty attemptz to get that close five more timez.

Sorry, ILoveGruntz, but I too am going to give this one a permanent 'pass'. It is just not worth the effort and frustration to play on in hopez that there is something truly meaty to solve. My age alone has me losing more and more hair every day ... I don't need to hasten the process by pulling any of it out by the rootz. If it is possible for external forcez to turn my hair grey (or white), this CL would be a candidate for achieving that undesirable result.

Edit: Playing this CL in 'easy' mode is also not a good option because of all of the Rolling 8 Ballz; it would greatly increase the wait for an opening, since the R8Bz would move at half speed (or less!). Once a Grunt stepz on an Arrow, the solver has absolutely no control over the remainder of the play of that part of the puzzle (no 'safe' spotz to stop and (re-)gather one's witz ... and wait for better timing). A good 'rule of thumb' is to provide a 'safe' spot on crumbling/toggling Bridgez after 15 or so Tile movez ... and limit up/down (15) or side-to-side (18) Bridgez or Silver Pyramid puzzlez so that solverz in the default 600X480 pizel resolution do not have to scroll the screen while solving the puzzle. (This is one 'rule' that I know that I have violated since installing the 1024X768 screen resolution patch.)

[WalkingBear]

ILOVGRUNTZ---how about making a revision that is easier to solve? With a walkthrough?

[Rik]

i told this a long time ago that this are no fun level , even with a WT are this a level that you frustrate so its in the trash can.
i did remove the light and some time puzzles and its then a nice level to play

[oldone]

I've been considering the same thing.

[ILoveGruntz]

I have been on vacation and have not been able to reply to your posts.
But here I am, and to summarize:
I can see that all players have difficulties getting through the same puzzle. As I have explained before. The timing is playing tricks on you. What seems to be almost the correct timing is the completely wrong timing. The correct timing is in the opposite end of the spotlight circle.
That means that when you (like Gooroo) is just one tile from making it, you have got it all wrong, and it is impossible to correct your timing enough to make it.
Actually the right timing is easy , the hard part is realizing that you have got to reconsider your timing.

[GooRoo]

In order to reach the southwest Green Hold Switch I went both right and left, with exactly the same result. If I made it past the SpotLight (on the Arrowz, with no control) one, two, three or four timez, I would still be grabbed by it one Tile away from the Green Hold Switch. It was rather easy to arrive at the southeast Green Hold Switch. It is simply cruel to have such long sequencez without any 'safe' Tilez for the solver to rest and re-gather one's witz, while deciding how to proceed. When I return home tonight I will modify that maze, adding a 'safe' Tile within the Arrowz, to see if I can play on. (Any such puzzle should IMNSHO be solvable on the third or fourth try ... thirty or forty (failed!) attemptz will generally turn a solver off on the puzzle.)

[ILoveGruntz]

Reed what I just posted before...

IF YOU GET GRABBED ONE TILE BEFORE THE SWITCH YOUR TIMING HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY WRONG.

It is impossible to clear that part if you don't try another way of timing the walk.
Instead of timing your grunt so that he steps out just after the first spotlight have passed by, time him so that the first spotlight just misses him. Then the last pass will cause no problems at all.

[ILoveGruntz]

admin said:

As far as the descriptionz being confusing ... how so? For standardization, the file namez for most componentz are given to prospective walkthrough writerz, for example: Toolz.htm(l). Older operating systemz are limitted to three character file extensionz (.htm), while newer onez allow four characterz (.html) ... the reason I put the "l" in parentheses.

That still sounds very confusing to me, but that is maybe because I don't understand what that .html is good for. I think that the thing I am most confused about, is that I can't see how to send in a simple walkthrough, without all this html coding.

[GooRoo]

ilovegruntz said:

That still sounds very confusing to me, but that is maybe because I don't understand what that .html is good for. I think that the thing I am most confused about, is that I can't see how to send in a simple walkthrough, without all this html coding.

HTML allowz the walkthrough to be broken up into pieces, so that the reader has to want to see the solution to a particular sub-puzzle ... instead of having it displayed right in the middle of general information. It also allowz linking a word (or picture) to another item external to the main thread, so that the writer can refer to Crumbling Bridge solution and only if the reader clickz on the link will s/he see the answer.

[ILoveGruntz]

OK. Then I think I understand it. But I very much doubt I will ever be able to write the walkthrough like that.
But right now, there is no desperate need for a walkthrough to this level, as the puzzle everybody is having problems with, is difficult because of the timing.