Pushin Them Around 3

[Zu]

Designer:		Zu
Level Set:	6Ho/Ho	Area 6 "Honey I Shrunk The Gruntz" Level 21
Est. Completion:		4:00-20:00
Est. Solve:		??:??
Date Released:		September 25, 2012
Status:		Released
Notes:		Difficulty=Easy Size=Small (43 X 43) Density=Normal
		Forum's web host
		Not yet
Statz Page image		Forum's web host
Statz Page image		GooRoo's verification result
Statz info.
Survivorz:		2
Deathz:		0
Toolz:		2
Toyz:		0
Powerupz:		2
Coinz:		20
Secretz:		2
View The Map		497,400 bytez - Forum's web host

Let's see.

The first PushinThemAround had a problem of very unclear connections between switchez and corresponding arrowz, with the only clue being a map that can be seen only when pressing a special switch and has to be actually remembered in order to successfully progress through the map. Then we have the problem of it being relatively easy to screw things up by letting GunHatz squish each other if you don't look what you're doing.

The second PushinThemAround had the switch connections better, but still relatively unclear at places, and requiring to look over entire, unnecessarily giant map looking for pyramidz in correct colour schemes, and sometimes make assumptions on which switch affects which pyramid-less arrow. Also, due to the level's huge size, the whole thing can take 2 hours or more to complete, and with the repetitive, monotonous gameplay, it gets boring and uninteresting pretty quickly. One good thing is that it's pretty much impossible to fail the level, due to the very careful design.

And the newest PushinThemAround, while having teleporter and switch connections as straightforward as possible, being relatively hard to fail, being short enough not to bore the player, and being small enough not to make it troublesome to search for things, is also disappointingly easy. On top of that, its name is pretty much symbolical by now, containing only one GunHat controlled by the player, and rarely requiring the player to actually use the Sponge Gun.

Oh well. Could be worse I suppose.

Done on a random whim. As short as it is, it still took me 9 hours to finish.

[GooRoo]

Ah! When all of the choicez seem to be impossible, then try the impossible! Now the problem is to determine whether the obvious choice is the correct one, or forcing another option is required. In each location the GunHat Grunt has an easy-to-reach Wormhole and three wormholez which may only be reached with 'assistance'. In one of the areaz, there is a Blue (usable only once) Wormhole which must be the desired destination for the GunHat, while all of the other Wormholez are Green (reusable). So the challenge is to get to the area containing that Blue Wormhole and, if necessary, enlist 'friendly fire' to dive through it. That will be tomorrow's task for yours truly.

BTW, I would suggest playing in 32X24 tile mode (maximum size) if at all possible ... with all of those Wormholez, it can be tough seeing where one Grunt went, in order to get the other Grunt nearby to assist.

[GooRoo]

Gruntz Fanz, check your e-mail in-boxez! I will be distributing this one in the next few minutez.

[Zu]

So, anybody tried that one yet?

Thank you, GooRoo, for beta-testing it, by the way. I still think I missed something though: I should have set the impassable tilez to be impassable diagonally. It kind of allows for unintended solutions the way it is now.

[GooRoo]

I don't see that it would make a whole lot of difference. Perhapz I shortened up a few pathz, because I proceeded from here to there (one click) rather than in multiple stepz, but since I was so much slower than your own result, I doubt it matterz at all.

BTW, humanz tend to be apathetic ... unless something botherz us, we tend not to comment about anything very often. In this case "bother" meaning having a problem, and needing help to solve it. I have found most Gruntzerz to be strong, stubborn typez, who plod on to the solution, rather than admit they are having trouble seeing their way ... and posting about it. When a Gruntzer managez to solve in less time than the provided Statz Page image, they may post about their result. Since I took about three minutez longer than you did, I would be surprised if anyone comez up with a really good time.

[Tomalla]

Not that I'm grumpy, but I'm really bothered no-one makes classic puzzles anymore. You know, like with creative and reasonable terrain ( no quirks like a hill ending abruptly or ground tile patterns forced to look like letters, that resemble something when viewed on mini-map ... who needs that? ), only two secrets ( one Secret Switch, one Secret Teleporter, one WARP letter and none of them are a part of puzzles required to finish a level ), no glitch exploting ( like recovering an item from an opened-wide hole by first filling it and then digging it afterwards, no Gruntz crossing between two raised pyramids diagonally and so on ), no areas left unoccupied by any structures! And many others! Is it only me, who feels like designers feel bored with Gruntz and try to find new ideas that don't necessarily suit the game itself?

I always was trying to reach these ... "ideals", with only few exceptions. But what's the point of designing such levels if you can't really enjoy playing them? You know all of the secrets, all of the solutions ... Moreover, when nobody actually sees how much effort you put into the levels you design, how much details you've deliberately included in your work, you start to lose the motivation to carry on, even though you found it entertaining to some extent.

Yes, I've played the level. But do I really have to say, after all what I've just written, that I didn't really enjoy it?

I hope I didn't offend anyone here with this elaborate post. But come on, is it only me who thinks it's wrong, or maybe I'm just a zealous conservative?

[Zu]

Is your criticism, Tomalla, aimed specifically at the fact that I decided to try going away from the default way some of the tilez work (grill tilez don't burn, you can walk on some of the brickz) this one time? If so, then the potential explanation I can give is that originally I was going to leave those tilez unaltered, and require the player to use (respawning) wingz instead, but I realized how annoying that would be, and decided to exploit the ability to alter the tilez, thinking that it would be funny to be able to walk on cooked bacon and eggs this one time. As for the brickz, then well, I did it mostly for player's convenience, so the grunt wouldn't have to take a detour when walking around.

Or maybe is it about the silver switch not only operating the pyramidz, but also causing the brickz to change their colour? Well, this is once again for player's convenience, so he can easily see how much time he has left before the pyramidz raise again; I considered it a much clearer and much safer solution as opposed to using a set of silver pyramidz which could cause an impatient and careless solver's grunt to be killed accidentally. But in retrospect, maybe it indeed would be better to just use a set of initially lowered pyramidz that would raise and lower in the same manner as the brickz change their colour... although I still think that those red brickz are a much clearer alarm than silver pyramidz.

What I can tell for sure is that I always try to aim for using matching tilez (no hills abruptly ending and stuff), two secretz (a button and a red warp) that aren't necessary for the solution (with obviously just one WARP letter), and use up all terrain I have in the level more or less cleverly. But as for glitch exploiting... it's just that I consider every possibility of new solutions to be very welcome, just as long as I can show them to the solver in such a way that it will be clear to them what they are supposed to do, and just as long as they can enhance the gameplay in any way. (I'm against those Magic Shovels too... it's completely illogical and unless you KNOW beforehand that you can expect this weird trick to be used in a level, you can be left completely confused and stuck, and you won't the person to blame, because the game NEVER introduces this concept to you.)

I do agree though that in the end, those completely traditional, well-made levels are the especially welcome ones. Particularly the ones of reasonable difficulty, since I seem to have terrible problems with levels Hard and up (unless I made them myself... and when I look months later at the HeCannotEscape, sometimes not even then!).

I wish I could somehow come up with a classic level... but for most of the time, I am entirely out of ideas for them. I really need to try doing one sometime. Without any bugs, glitches and exploits whatsoever. TwoGruntzOneToob was the closest to it, if you don't mind the Thief Toob exploit...

[GooRoo]

In order to conform to the original Gruntz Questz, the only prize to be gained from finding the SecretTeleportTrigger ( was the Warp Letter ... and the resulting Cheat Code(z). And that was not available in "Easy" mode! The Secret (Question Mark) Switch is alwayz available. The shortcoming in this one (based upon the above) is that the SecretTeleporterTrigger was required in order to reach the Question Mark Switch. A Blue Warp to reach the Question Mark Switch, and a Hole where the return Red Warp would appear (and no grey Pyramid between the Warp Letter and the Hole) would fix that concern. The biggest problem would be a meanz for the non-GunHat Grunt to get around ... Wingz wouldn't work, because they fall off after a while ... and they would make accessing the SecretTeleporterTrigger very frustrating!

The 'gimmick' in this one is the initial feeling of "you can't get there from here!", that likely gave everyone who tried it pause.

[Zu]

Yeah, I do realize that... I guess this was caused by the fact that initially I wasn't planning on including any Secretz at all, and I included that one pretty much as an afterthought, without attempting to put much thought into it. (Except, well, carefully testing the timing of the bridgez.)

This will definitely change in whatever classic level I will come up with... if there will be any.

[Tomalla]

It's not like I'm very strict at reproducing the Quest Levels. In my opinion, they're too ... loose. They also use the tiles that are used against their real purpose ( especially in Gruntz In Space, where you must have walked through an open space in order to reach a secret ). I don't really approve of that.

I really, really encourage everybody to make Custom Levels. Any of them! At this point I don't care they're not classic - as of today it seems like only Zu makes Custom Levels. That's ... quite pessimistic if you ask me.

PS. lol, so the bricks in the middle of the map actually were supposed to give me hints? Good to know Where there any other hints as well excluding obvious Warpstone images that I've missed?

[Zu]

Sept 30, 2012 11:42:08 GMT -8 Tomalla said:

Where there any other hints as well excluding obvious Warpstone images that I've missed?

Well, I hope you noticed that the EyeCandiez were indicating to which area each wormhole leads? That was pretty much the only other hint, I think.

[GooRoo]

Sept 30, 2012 11:54:10 GMT -8 Zu said:

Sept 30, 2012 11:42:08 GMT -8 Tomalla said:

Where there any other hints as well excluding obvious Warpstone images that I've missed?

Well, I hope you noticed that the EyeCandiez were indicating to which area each wormhole leads? That was pretty much the only other hint, I think.

I totally missed that 'hint'! That's probably what cost me the three minutez!

[Zu]

Well then. There definitely won't be any more PushinThemAround levelz if people keep completely missing ALL hints I put in these levelz. This game DESPERATELY needs an ability to create custom help notez.

I mean really. I was discouraged by everyone to make these levelz every time I made one, and every single time I had to face a brutal reality that no matter what hintz I include, NOBODY gets them. And on top of that, the general consensus was that apparently NOBODY likes these levelz. So why do I bother making these? Really, this leaves me completely discouraged from making not only these levelz, but any levelz in general.

[GooRoo]

Well, I got the associationz of Switchez to Pyramidz in the first two ... even if no one else did. But I did not notice that each GunHat location had a single EyeCandy! I guess all of those Grey Pyramidz and such hid the fact of the EyeCandy placementz.

[Deleted]

How do you maked griddle can passable?

[Zu]

Go to Tile -> Properties (when in Tile Mode), then find the numbers of the related tiles and change "Death" to "Clear".

[Deleted]

Thanks

[powerfulmind]

Apr 25, 2015 12:43:29 GMT -8 @zazor5000 said:

How do you maked griddle can passable?

I think it'll help you a little bit for other examplez: you should observe the User Value for a Tile (able to edit if you choose User type), for example: If I want to make Tile #2 (one of the regular onez) working like a Spikez bed, I should see what User Value makez the Spikez, er... Spikez.    So, I see the Spikez have User Value 32. To let the Tile #2 make pain, you write the Tile number just 2 and change it from Clear to User with 32 Value. And done! 
Or if you know the User Values: 34 for a Mound and 35 for a Hole, you can even make the Pyramid diggable or all the Death Tilez from High on Sweetz with value 35, so every Grunt will die, falling inside, like into a Hole (or vice versa, just making Tilez #196 and #198 Death). Et cetera, et cetera.

I used thiz method to make one of the Secretz of my CL, maybe you'll know where iz it (but DO NOT write about it!   ).

[powerfulmind]

Downloaded the CL. I got PERFECT! score in 5:37. Man, difficult puzzle. If made it at first, I got no Secretz. Then typed mpilovethisgame and found the RW (no mercy!!!   ). If making the puzzle for the second time, I tried to remember the Target places of the GWz, but no way... Maybe if I'll try it for a few timez, I'll finally remember the GWz targetz positionz. Zu, you got closer to the legendary Perfect Puzzle, if you remember my ealier status("Doez the Perfect Puzzle exist? Difficult question, even for me ")... But - Thiz iz Gruntz - The Ultimate Puzzle-Strategy-Action Game, hah!   So, thank you. Thiz CL just showz the truth of these wordz!! 
PS. I'm glad how much problemz may make other Pushin Them Around Puzzlez... I see, I should try to solve them, too. 

[rohit]

Where is the red warp to reach the SS?